Interview by Edward Sanderson and originally post on his website.
Today I am very happy to be able to publish an interview with Ake 阿科, the Beijing-based experimental musician. Ake is a young (born in 1990), self-taught artist, who has only been performing for a couple of years but has become a regular participant in experimental music events in the city. While initially working with violin drones, she has recently started investigating manipulated field recording. I interviewed Ake because I think she represents a new generation of artists in China whose practice is developing within a relatively stable environment for autonomous experimental work, an environment that does not depend on the “regular” music scene to provide it with outlets and reasons to exist.
Interview: 7 April 2017, Beijing
Beijing
Edward Sanderson (ES): Where are you from originally?
Ake (AK): I’m from Haikou city, in Hainan province in China. I came to Beijing in 2008 to study Business English at college. I haven’t finished this yet, because I don’t really like tests; I’m not a good student!
ES: But you decided to stay in Beijing? What were you doing?
AK: Before I came to Beijing I didn’t know much about Beijing at all. I just know it is the capital city of China. I don’t really know what was going on, like the music scene, or with the theatre, or any other arts things.
ES: Were you interested in those things before you came to Beijing?
AK: I may have read some things about them, and listened to some music, but I didn’t really know what was happening here. So after I got here I felt it really was not what I expected. Everything was pretty new for me, and made a pretty strong impact.
ES: When you were living in Haikou, were you listening to much music?
AK: Not very much.
ES: Did you ever study music?
AK: I remember I didn’t really like music at all at that point! It’s only when I was at high school that I listened to things like the Beatles and Bob Dylan, and some classical music.
ES: How did you hear those artists?
AK: It was from one of my classmates. It was towards the end of high school, the final year, and we were working hard to finish. In the middle of the day we’re supposed to have a rest, have a sleep, so we’re hanging out in the classroom and some people are playing some CDs to learn English and there are some English songs on the CDs, like the Beatles.
ES: Were you taught music at school? Did you learn an instrument?
AK: Before that I didn’t really like music at all, and I didn’t like the music classes, because I can’t play music. I was very embarrassed because I couldn’t remember the notes!
ES: So when you came to Beijing how did you come into contact with the music scene here?
AK: I think my first involvement in the music scene was in 2009 or 10, I guess. I was working at a café near the west gate of Tsinghua University [in the University district in the North-West of Beijing]. They were selling some illegal music CDs so I was listening to a lot of music that way. The café would also have some shows of folk music, one-person bands usually. I also heard about D22 at that time because it was pretty close to the café, and I went there twice. [D22: influential live house, run by the Maybe Mars record label, open from 2006 to 2012]
ES: What kind of thing did you see at D22?
AK: I saw Little Punk who is from Shanghai, and Skip Skip Ben Ben from Taiwan. I remember Little Punk most. There were quite a lot of people there that night and I was standing quite close to her. I got a really strong feeling from that. Her sound is quite powerful.
ES: How long were you working in that cafe and how did you end up on this side of town?
AK: I was working there for maybe half a year, and then I went back to Hainan. Then I travelled a little bit, and went back to school. A few years later, after I graduated, I came back to Beijing and became involved in this area of town because of the Penghao Theatre [蓬蒿剧场]. At that time I wanted to be involved in theatre and they have an independent theatre festival every year. So I did volunteering for this festival.
I didn’t really know this area, actually. I just felt like it was a fun area, so I was looking around, and also because of the festival, there were all these theatre productions at that time.
ES: Had you been to the festival before?
AK: No. I was just passing by the theatre actually. That’s often how I get involved with things. I’m not really into that type of people, otherwise I would probably already know about those things – I was just walking past. Also with the café, I was looking for a job and I just walked by there.
For the theatre festival, they asked me to deliver flyers for the events. This was even before I was living in that area, somehow I had a bike there already. So I just rode the bike around and got to know the area pretty well. I knew about some of the music venues around there, like Mao Livehouse and Yugong Yishan [two mid-sized live music venues in the centre of Beijing], but I didn’t really go to many shows there.
ES: By this time had D22 closed and XP opened? [XP: Maybe Mars’ successor to D22 in the centre of Beijing, open from 2012 to 2015]
AK: Yes. At that time it was XP. I got involved with XP because of the Mid-summer festival organised by the French Embassy and cultural centre, with free music in many venues in town. So I went to most of those shows, and I saw one venue called XP, and although I didn’t really know about it I had a good feeling about it, so I got on my bicycle to go, but it’s raining that night so I wasn’t able to find it in the end. But I was able to find it later on, and then I went there quite often.
ES: Were you going to see the experimental music at XP?
AK: To begin with I just went to music gigs at the weekends, and then I found out XP had a regular experimental night on Tuesday called Zoomin’ Night organised by Zhu Wenbo [朱文博 – experimental musician and event organiser], and the tickets are cheaper, and the sound is… I don’t know… I just enjoyed standing there and listening to those sounds. You can do better thinking sometimes than with other music!
ES: Did you know Zhu Wenbo at that point, or were you just in the audience, listening?
AK: I suppose I was just listening, I didn’t really know the people. I only knew Zhu Wenbo after I’d been going to Zoomin’ Night for two years or something! At that point they had a show where everybody can play their music, or compose something, so I joined in for that show.
ES: So you found the experimental music interesting?
AK: It seemed suitable for me!
ES: But were you playing any instrument by then?
AK: No. I was more a pure listener, I think. I just really enjoyed listening.
ES: So how did you get into performing?
AK: It had something to do with one of my ex-boyfriends. He is a musician, and one day we were hanging out in a hutong and someone there was selling a violin very cheaply, like 10 kuai. My boyfriend asked me if I wanted to try it. At that time we also hung out in Zajia [杂家 – art centre in central Beijing, open from 2010–2015] quite often, so I tried playing the violin in Zajia once. They had a free jam session that Aming [阿鸣 – experimental musician, founder of Space 631 in Shanghai] organised, so I tried to play a little bit, but it was a bit scary, and then I didn’t really touch it for one year. Then I began to practice a bit and I found I liked it this time, and could continue playing it.
Then Zhu Wenbo was doing a show about composition, and asked me if I wanted to join. I was doing a little bit already, so I thought I could try.
ES: At that point you were playing very simple drone pieces with single notes held for long periods. How would you describe what you were trying to do?
AK: I found that it is never one pure note; there are other sounds inside each note. So I am just playing and trying to find these notes. I just follow the feeling. I don’t try to do too much because if I make big jumps between the notes that are too big, it can be quite scary for me.
ES: Are you studying how to play at all?
AK: In the beginning I asked one of my friends, who is a violinist at a school, how to hold the instrument better. But otherwise I’m not trying to learn how to play.
ES: Over time, as you do more performances, do you feel like your technique is changing?
AK: Yes, I think I know more about making the sounds, rather than just listening to them. But it’s also helped to improve my listening, as well. Before, maybe I’m listening more to the feeling, but now I can understand the structure better.
ES: Do you perform for yourself, or for the audience?
AK: I think it’s better if I just perform for myself. I don’t really know about performing on stage for an audience. The Zoomin’ Nights were quite good for me, because they are about sharing – I’m doing my thing, and then the audience happen to be here, so we share it. I’m interested in how Zhu Wenbo and Yan Yulong [闫玉龙 – experimental musician and member of the group Chui Wan] (and some other people) are conscious of making links with the audience as part of the show; the audience is an element of the performance. I don’t think I have that consciousness yet. I would like to have it; maybe then I can do more interesting things.
ES: How did you end up being invited to submit a track for the compilation that Yan Jun and Zhu Wenbo have put together?1 Your track seems to be a field recording in a toilet, which is not what I was expecting from you!
AK: Well, when Zhu Wenbo asked me, and I saw the title: “there is no music from China”, I just had the feeling that I shouldn’t use my violin. I had several ideas about what kind of recording to do. I was thinking about recording a bicycle, on the street. But I was interested in making a structured piece, not just a straight recording of a sound – but the bicycle already has its own structure so I didn’t use that in the end.
I was working at the Institute for Provocation (IfP) [a gallery and residency space in Beijing] at that time, and I realised the sound in their toilet is really good.
ES: What is the structure in that piece?
AK: The recording is: as you go inside the toilet you open the door and you turn on the light, you sit there, afterwards you flush and turn off the light, and then you close the door. And then I repeat this process, but every time I mix up the order of events. Everything is a little bit upside down. I think this can be interesting.
ES: For me it’s also interesting because I was expecting something like what you usually do with your violin. It makes me want to ask what are your reasons for doing this? Do you think you’re going to do more of these kinds of recordings?
AK: Yes, I like doing things like this. Sometimes you get a chance to do things, and then you have an idea. Or sometimes you have an idea, and then you do things. Art, for me, is like this; it can give me ways to do things. Theatre is one way, and sound is another; there are a lot of ways to do my things.
ES: They are different ways to express yourself? So you’re not particularly a musician, or someone who works in theatre – they’re all good ways for you to work?
AK: Yes. I’d rather not be defined, actually. Maybe, for me, all these ways of working are sending out the same thing. That’s why I really enjoy doing things with Zhu Wenbo and the others, because they just say, “Have a go!”. And then you do it.
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我很高兴能够发表对北京实验音乐家阿科的采访。阿科是一位年轻的（1990 年出生）自学成才的艺术家，她只表演了几年，但已经成为北京实验音乐活动的常客。她最初使用小提琴嗡嗡声，最近开始研究操作田野录音。我采访阿科是因为我认为她代表了中国新一代艺术家，他们的实践是在相对稳定的自主实验工作环境中发展起来的，这种环境不依赖“常规”音乐场景为其提供渠道和存在的理由。
采访：2017 年 4 月 7 日，北京
李蔼德（ES）：你的家乡是哪里？
阿科（AK）：我来自中国海南省海口市。2008 年我来到北京，在大学学习商务英语。我没有念完大学，因为我不太喜欢考试；我不是一个好学生！
ES：但你决定留在北京？当时你在做什么？
AK：来北京之前我对北京知之甚少。我只知道它是中国的首都。我不太了解那里的音乐、戏剧或其他艺术方面的情况。
ES：来北京之前你对这些事情感兴趣吗？
AK：我可能读过一些关于这些的书，听过一些音乐，但我真的不知道这里发生了什么。所以来到这里后，我觉得这里真的不是我所以为的那样。一切对我来说都很新鲜，而且影响很大。
ES：你住在海口的时候，听很多音乐吗？
AK：不是很多。
ES：你学过音乐吗？
AK：我记得那时我根本不喜欢音乐！直到高中时我才听披头士和鲍勃·迪伦之类的音乐，还有一些古典音乐。
ES：你是如何听到这些艺术家的？
AK：是我的一个同学发来的。当时正值高中毕业季，我们正努力完成学业。中午时分，我们本该休息一下，睡一觉，所以我们就待在教室里，有些人在放一些学习英语的 CD，CD 上有一些英文歌曲，比如披头士乐队的歌曲。
ES：你在学校学过音乐吗？你学过乐器吗？
AK：在此之前，我根本不喜欢音乐，也不喜欢音乐课，因为我不会演奏音乐。我很尴尬，因为我记不住音符！
ES：那么当你来到北京时，你是如何接触到这里的音乐场景的呢？
AK：我想我第一次接触这些音乐是在 2009 年或 2010 年。当时我在清华大学西门附近的一家咖啡馆工作（位于北京西北的大学区）。他们卖一些非法音乐 CD，所以我通过这种方式听了很多音乐。咖啡馆还会举办一些民谣表演，通常是单人乐队。我当时还听说过 D22，因为它离咖啡馆很近，我去了那里两次。
ES：你在 D22 看了谁？
AK：我见到了来自上海的小朋克，还有来自台湾的 Skip Skip Ben Ben。我对小朋克印象最深。那天晚上现场人很多，我站得离她很近。我感受到了非常强烈的感觉。她的声音很有力量。
ES：你在那家咖啡馆工作了多久？为什么后来来到了这座城市的另一边？
AK：我在那里工作了大概半年，然后回到了海南。然后我出去旅游了一阵子，又回到了学校。几年后，我毕业了，回到了北京，因为蓬蒿剧场而开始来这边。当时我想参与戏剧，他们每年都会举办独立戏剧节。所以我去这个节日做了志愿者。
事实上，我并不十分了解这个地方。我只是觉得这是一个有趣的地方，所以我四处逛了逛，而且因为有这个节，当时有很多戏剧演出。
ES：你以前参加过戏剧节吗？
AK：没有。其实我只是路过剧场。我经常这样参与事情。我和那些人不太合拍，不然我可能已经知道这些事情了——我只是路过而已。还有那家咖啡馆，当时我正在找工作，就路过那里了。
戏剧节的时候，他们让我去发活动传单。这甚至发生在我住在那一带之前，不知怎的，我在那里已经有了一辆自行车。所以我就骑着自行车四处转了转，对那一带非常熟悉。我知道那边的一些音乐场所，比如 Mao Livehouse 和愚公移山，但我并没有真正去那里看过很多演出。
ES：那时候 D22 已经关闭，XP 开业了吗？
AK：是的。当时是 XP。我参与 XP 是因为法国大使馆和文化中心举办的夏至音乐日活动，城里很多场馆都有免费音乐会。所以我去了大部分的演出，我看到了一个叫 XP 的场地，虽然我不太了解它，但我对它很有感觉，所以我骑着自行车去了，但那天晚上下雨了，所以我最终没能找到它。但我后来找到了它，然后我就经常去那里。
ES：你会去看 XP 的实验音乐吗？
AK：一开始我只是在周末去听音乐会，后来我发现 XP 每周二都会举办一个固定的实验之夜，叫做燥眠夜，由朱文博组织，门票比较便宜，而且声音……我不知道……我只是喜欢站在那里听那些声音。有时，听其他音乐能让你思考得更好！
ES：那时你认识朱文博吗？还是你只是在观众席中听？
AK：我想我只是在听，我并不真正了解这些人。我去燥眠夜两年后才认识朱文博！那时他们有一个节目，每个人都可以演奏自己的音乐，或者创作一些东西，所以我加入了那个节目。
ES：那么你觉得实验音乐很有趣吗？
AK：我觉得它很适合我！
ES：但是那时你会演奏乐器吗？
AK：不。我想我更像是一个纯粹的听众。我只是真的很喜欢听。
ES：那么你是怎样开始表演的呢？
AK：这和我的一个前男友有关。他是个音乐家，有一天我们在胡同里闲逛，那里有人以很便宜的价格卖一把小提琴，大概 10 块钱。我男朋友问我是否想试试。那时我们也经常去杂家，所以我有一次在杂家试着拉小提琴。他们有一个免费的即兴演奏会，由阿鸣组织，所以我试着拉了一点，但有点害怕，之后一年我都没怎么碰过它。后来我开始练习一点，这次我发现我喜欢它，可以继续拉了。
后来朱文博在做一个关于作曲的节目，问我要不要参加。我已经做了一点，所以我想我可以试试。
ES：那时，你演奏的是非常简单的持续音乐曲，单音持续很长时间。你如何描述自己尝试做的事情？
AK：我发现它从来都不是一个纯粹的音符；每个音符里面都有其他的声音。所以我只是在演奏，试图找到这些音符。我只是跟着感觉走。我不会尝试做太多，因为如果我在音符之间做出太大的跳跃，那对我来说可能会相当可怕。
ES：你在学习演奏吗？
AK：一开始我问过我的一个朋友，他是学校里的小提琴手，学习如何才能更好地握住乐器。但除此之外，我并没有尝试学习如何演奏。
ES：随着时间的推移，随着你表演的增多，你是否觉得自己的技巧发生了变化？
AK：是的，我觉得我更懂得如何发出声音，而不仅仅是听声音。但这也有助于提高我的听力。以前，我可能更多地听感觉，但现在我能更好地理解结构了。
ES：你是为自己表演，还是为观众表演？
AK：我觉得最好还是为自己表演。我不太懂在舞台上为观众表演。燥眠夜对我来说很不错，因为它们是关于分享的——我在做自己的事情，然后观众恰好在这里，所以我们就分享。我感兴趣的是朱文博和闫玉龙（实验音乐家和 Chui Wan 乐队成员）（以及其他一些人）如何有意识地在演出中与观众建立联系；观众是表演的一个元素。我认为我还没有这种意识。我希望有这种意识；也许这样我就可以做更多有趣的事情了。
ES：你为什么会被邀请为颜峻和朱文博合作的合集提交曲目？你的曲目看起来像是在厕所里进行的实地录音，这出乎我的意料！
AK：当朱文博问我的时候，我看到标题“没有来自中国的音乐”，我就觉得我不应该用我的小提琴。对于要录制什么样的音乐，我有几个想法。我当时想录制一辆自行车，在街上。但我感兴趣的是制作一个结构化的作品，而不仅仅是直接录制声音——但自行车已经有了自己的结构，所以我最终没有使用它。
当时我在激发研究所（IfP）工作，我意识到他们厕所里的声音真的很好。
ES：这件作品的结构是怎样的？
AK：录音内容是：当你走进厕所时，你打开门，打开灯，坐在那里，然后冲水并关灯，最后关上门。然后我重复这个过程，但每次我都会把事件的顺序弄混。一切都有点颠倒了。我认为这很有趣。
ES：对我来说，这也很有趣，因为我原本期待着你用小提琴演奏一些类似的东西。这让我想问你这样做的原因是什么？你认为你会做更多这样的录音吗？
AK：是的，我喜欢做这样的事情。有时你有机会做某件事，然后你就有了一个想法。或者有时你有一个想法，然后你就去做了。对我来说，艺术就是这样；它可以给我做事的方法。戏剧是一种方式，声音是另一种方式；有很多方法可以做我的事情。
ES：它们是表达自己的不同方式吗？所以你并不是一个音乐家，也不是一个在剧场工作的人——它们都是你工作的好方法？
AK：是的。实际上，我宁愿不被定义。也许，对我来说，所有这些工作方式都在传递同样的东西。这就是为什么我真的喜欢和朱文博和其他人一起做事，因为他们会说，“试试看！”然后你就去做了。