In the preparing days of cassette Leverages, Zhu Wenbo invited Masahide Tokunaga to do an interview by email, around the topics of his life, his saxophone practice, his former CDs and the new cassette. Thanks to Kazuya Takeda for English translation.

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Wenbo: We could start this interview from your own background. Actually I have not searched out too much info about you, just know that you was born in 1982 in Yamaguchi city, and now you lives in Tokyo. When did you move to Tokyo? Did you move here for music? I know that many people move from their hometown to some big cities just for there active music scene, including myself.

Masahide: I moved to Tokyo at the end of March 2005 after graduating from my university in Yamaguchi.

At that time, I was unsure of several options for my future. After graduating from university, I had also vaguely thought of studying abroad at a music school to further my saxophone studies, but decided against it for financial reasons.

And I delayed to start look for a job after graduation because I was studying abroad for a year while in the university as an exchange student. so I was thinking to stay in university for another one year and restart to look for a job in the next year.

But fortunately, I received job offers from two companies (one is in Tokyo and another is in Fukuoka). And I decided to go with the one in Tokyo.

Although it was an ordinary company that had nothing to do with music, but the life in Tokyo had a positive influence on my music.

Wenbo: Alto saxophone is your main instrument. When did you start to learn this instrument? Is there any reasons?

Masahide: In the summer of 1997, I bought a second hand alto saxophone at a used CD store, owned by Ichiraku Yoshimitsu/Doravideo, where I used to come frequently. They also sold used musical instruments.

The price of the saxophone that I bought was 39,800 yen on the tag, but the shop guy said, “If you want to buy it, it’s ok for only 30,000 yen,” so I decided to buy this instrument with my own savings and some help from my parents.

When I bought the saxophone, the shop guy at the store tricked to lend me a VHS of a live performance by John Zorn and EYE Yamatsuka as an “Instruction video for beginners”.

At that time I even didn’t know that the saxophone needs a reed. So I went to buy one at a nearby store of musical instruments, went back to the used CD store again, and finally I could have started to play it.

Why alto saxophone? It was a coincidence. At that time, someone sold a YAMAHA Student Model alto saxophone to that store, and I bought it before others did. From that moment, my life with alto saxophone has began.

I have dabbled in various instruments such as piano, drums, guitar, and live electronics, but the alto saxophone is the only one that I have continued to play until now, and I think that is because it suits me well.

From childhood to high school, I was a swimmer. How hard I practiced swimming, it depends on the period. Sometimes practiced very hard and serious and other times not so much. When I was concentrating to practice at the most seriously, I went to swimming school six days a week and even won a championship in Yamaguchi prefecture. Looking back now, it has similarities (especially how to breath) between making a sound with a saxophone and swimming in water.

Wenbo: Have you ever tried other kinds of saxophone, such as tenor or baritone, or clarinet, or any other instruments?

Masahide: I have played a little bit of each of the other reed instruments, but have never thought about playing them seriously as my own instruments.

I bought a new alto saxophone in June 2020, and this is my fourth alto saxophone. I have thought about buying a soprano or tenor, but as a result, I’m doing my best to pursue the sound of the alto saxophone.

Wenbo: Did you have any teacher for learning this instrument, or fully self-taught? Before or in the learning this instrument, did you have any other music learning or experience? Such as playing in a rock band..

Masahide: From childhood to elementary school, I have learned piano and drums at Yamaha music school.

In junior high school, I have played drums in a rock band. I joined a copy band to perform at a school festival. Copying the Blue Hearts and other Japanese punk bands.

I was a member of the brass band club in high school and university, but have quitted both of them after short period of time.

Since I was having trouble finding a place to practice, it was attractive to me to be able to practice at school when I joined the club. But I couldn’t fit in with the group fundamentally because the type of music they play is different from what I want.

During junior high school and high school, I learned the basics of playing the instrument from a local semi-professional saxophonist.

During high school and university, I took classical lessons from a local classical professional. He was a teacher who gave lessons to students preparing for music school, and although the lesson fee was very expensive, it was well worth for me. I practiced Marcel Mule etudes in the lessons.

After started working, I studied saxophone and jazz theory with Naruyoshi Kikuchi for three years.

Wenbo: For the topic of saxophone player, especially alto saxophone improvisation players from Japan, many music lovers might immediately think of Kaoru Abe, maybe some other followers including Urabe Masayoshi, Harutaka Mochizuki, Makoto Kawashima.. It’s obvious there is a continuous line in their music, but you are very different from their sound. I can’t make sure if we could name their style as a representative “Japanese free-improvisation saxophone sound”. Maybe we could not say that, because it is just a one-sided observation from a non-Japanese cultural system. So how do you think about that “classical Japanese free-improvisation saxophone sound”? And during your learning and practicing, did you get any influence from jazz/free jazz/free improvisation things?

Masahide: I bought several CDs of Kaoru Abe. I think his duo with Masayuki Takayanagi is amazing. However, I don’t want to follow other player’s style. If I play by imitating someone’s style, I would not bother to perform in front of people. No matter how poor and ugly it is, if the sound is not the person’s own sound, it is meaningless. And I don’t like performances that bare their emotions. Kaoru Abe’s lifestyle is also not welcoming and I don’t want to refer to it.

One non-Japanese but noteworthy Asian alto saxophonist is Kang Tae-hwan from Korea. I have had the privilege of experiencing his live performance several times during my teenager. Although I myself don’t play with circulatory breathe, I think I have been influenced by his playing in some small way.

Wenbo: If I describe your music style to other friends, I might mentioned things like: rich overtones, long tones/long breath, very focus sound but also relax and enjoyable. I don’t know if you agree with that. Would you like to tell us that who influence your music? I guess that maybe not all of them play saxophone.

Masahide: Sachiko M, Taku Sugimoto, Toshimaru Nakamura, Tetuzi Akiyama, Otomo Yoshihide, Keiji Haino, etc. I was fortunate enough to be exposed to their live performances in my teens and early twenties. Their music had the greatest influence on me.

At the Yoshimitsu Ichiraku owned used CD store, where I bought my first saxophone, I heard a variety of improvised music. Then he brought many musicians to Yamaguchi on tour, and I was able to see them perform live.

One day I got a flyer which informed Ichiraku has a live performance. So I went to the gig. Maybe by bicycle. It was I.S.O.’s concert, which was in July 1997, I think. It was my first experience of improvised music. Later, I also went to see Seiichi Yamamoto and Kazuhisa Uchihashi perform live in Yamaguchi. Especially Keiji Haino’s guitar performance astonished me when I was a junior high school student.

I first met Taku Sugimoto in 2003 when I had just come back from my study abroad in US. Sugimoto and Tetuzi Akiyama came to see my live performance with Takefumi Naoshima in Enban at Koenji, Tokyo.

In 2004, I performed with Taku Sugimoto in Kokura and Yamaguchi for the first time. At that time, we performed pieces composed by Taku Sugimoto.

Wenbo: In your saxophone playing, is there any note or sound you enjoy very much so that always play naturally and involuntarily? Like many some blues musician always plays song in E.

Masahide: The lowest note of alto saxophone (holding all the holes in the saxophone), which is D flat at concert pitch. And B flat at concert pitch, holding all the holes in the upper half of the tube by holding all the fingers of the left hand except the little finger.

When playing an instrument, I believe that blowing the lowest note is the most effective way to make the instrument resonate. In terms of resonance, I also like low G. Then I sometimes use low D as well. I often play using these notes and the overtones derived from them.

Wenbo: I heard that you practice yoga. Is that true? Do you think there is any links between practicing yoga and your music style?

Masahide: Originally I have been interested in yoga and I started going to a yoga school in around 2014 and tried some different schools of yoga. As a result, I found that Iyengar Yoga, established by a man named B.K.S. Iyengar, was right for me, and still now I go to the school of Iyengar Yoga. Since I started doing yoga, the quality of my sound has improved much more.

Wenbo: I first knew your music through the album Alto Saxophone 2 released by Ftarri. I think it was 2015. After that I heard more including your debut album Alto Saxophone from Slub Music, and your third solo CD Bwoouunn: Fleeting Excitement, and some collaboration live recordings. A few days ago I listened your track in the compilation from Improvisation Music From Japan, seems that was your earliest recordings (2003). I could feel some changes during this process, meanwhile can’t make sure if the change is from your performing or the management to the recording. For example in Alto Saxophone 2, there is very loud sound, but I guess you did not play loud, but in the mastering Toshimaru Nakamura set a very “close” sound to make it loud. So that I would love to listen from your side: in the past 20 years, what kinds of changes happen to your performance style and things you focus on?

Masahide: In “Alto Saxophone 2”, I am actually blowing very loud in part.

Some changes that you found are due to the effect of my yoga practice. To use a piano analogy, if my sound before I discovered yoga was a cheap upright piano that you could buy for about 50,000 yen, my current sound is like an 800,000 yen grand piano. However, there is still room for improvement. I could play a broken piano as like a prepared piano, but in my case I did not go in that direction.

Above all, I think the change from “Alto Saxophone 2” to “Bwoouunn” is that I got the higher level of concentration and the ability to sustain it. There is a limit to what I can do if I just practice saxophone aimlessly. The key point of making the saxophone resonant is based on the stability of the body.

I think there are some difference due to recording and mastering, but I don’t really know. However, I think it is important to have someone who understands the music I am doing for the recording and mastering process. If someone who doesn’t understand my intention of the music is working on it, the result becomes something else entirely.

Wenbo: In my memories, you always play improvisation music before, solo or together with some other people. But seems you started to try some composition in these years. In 2019 you played some concerts performing other composer’s pieces. Your 2021 album While Your Master is Sleeping was composed by Taku Sugimoto. And the cassette in 2022 is your own composition. Nowadays, how different for you to these three interests (improvisation / playing other people’s composition / write your own piece)? Which one your would like to spend more time on?

Masahide: Regarding compositions, I have had the experience of participating as a performer in the composition series that Taku Sugimoto and Taku Unami had organized at loop-line. I also once performed a piece by Taku Sugimoto at Kid Ailack Hall, which is no longer there as well as loop-line. My experiences in those days have been helpful when I compose music recently, .

As for each of the three interest (improvisation/performing other people’s compositions/writing my own work), well, they are different things each other as you know, but I think now, what I should not forget above all, is that I put the most value on the sound which comes out from the saxophone finally.

Wenbo: While Your Master is Sleeping was played by you and Hiroyuki Ura, but it was released on Ftarri’s sub-label Hitorri, which limited to solo performance. Is there any reasons for that?

Masahide: Explaining the story of how it happened goes like this. First, I asked Taku Sugimoto to compose a solo piece for me. As a result, he wrote a piece for saxophone and sine wave.

As for the sine wave, it is not so much a performance, but rather the faithful programming of the pitches and timing that were given in detail, and the playback of the music as instructed.

I myself do not know much about the details and the intention of the label. Ultimately, it was entirely decided by the label owner.

Wenbo: For the new composition cassette Leverages, originally it was wrote to me. I have to say that I felt its influence to my performing after some days practicing. I want to know that, for you, where did the composition start from? And why does it have the intention of “leverage”?

Masahide: The original idea came from the yoga practice which is called pranayama. In pranayama lessons, the teacher instructs the students how to breath in, stop breathing, breath out. I simplified this method and applied to form the basis of this piece. Then I tried it out with Fumi Endo (piano) and Tomoki Tai (cello) before submitting to you, and found that it was not bad as an idea for a musical piece, so I finally delivered it to you.

When we do something, we usually accomplish 10 tasks by using 10 powers at the beginning, But as we get used to it and get better at it, we will be able to do 10 tasks with 8, 7, or even less powers. The remaining power can be put on another new challenges in new fields. I believe that this idea of leverage can be applied to the way of thinking, making sounds, and many other aspects. With this hope in mind, I have chosen the word “leverage” as the title of this piece.

Wenbo: During your performance, how do you feel the difference between composition and improvisation? Maybe you could use the new cassette as an example to expand this topic.

Masahide: The way of my composition is to write a score in text, and dare I say it, it is just like an explicit statement of “manners”. The manners which is to realize my ideal music.

Wenbo: I always saw your name on Ftarri store’s schedule. Sometimes you are the organizer, sometimes not. So normally how many concerts do you play for one month in Tokyo? Which is more of your own organizing or being invited performances? Do you have any very closed collaborators?

Masahide: I perform at Ftarri for 0 times to 3 times a month at most. At Ftarri, I feel easy to concentrate on Music. When I perform at Ftarri, normally I organize the program. The number of concert that Ftarri organize is not so many. Once Ftarri organize a concert, I can get a better payback. Recently, I often perform with Fumi Endo.

Wenbo: I also heard that you did many different jobs for living, including taxi driver and fixing tubes. What kind of job are you doing now? Have you think about making living by music (not limit to saxophone improvisation music)?

Masahide: After graduating university, I worked for an IT company for 8 years, a fixing tube company for 5 years, and now I’ve been working as a taxi driver for almost 4 years now. When I was student, I have thought to myself, “I want to make a living from music.” However, I think that because I do not make living by music, no one bother my music. So I’m satisfied with my current life.

Wenbo: How long time do you practicing music every day? What kind of practice way will you take? I guess there are also some practice beside the saxophone maybe?

Masahide: I am not able to practice every day. But when I do, it is mainly long tones, of course. Also, I spend more time and frequency practicing yoga than practicing my instrument.

Wenbo: Will you make plans for yourself? Or no clear plan, just let things happen naturally? If there are plans, would you let to share us some plans in the next following year?

Masahide: I don’t remember when the last time was, but in November 2022, I will go abroad to play. I’m visiting Switzerland. I think it will be a good opportunity to refresh myself. I would like to travel abroad to play music at least once a year. I am currently working as an employee, but I’m thinking to prepare to work as a self-employment in the next five to six years, although it will take some time. This will allow me to devote more time to my musical activities.

德永将豪的独奏专辑《Leverages杠杆》是他的第5张个人专辑。专辑里收录了2022年5月他的两次录音。这是他的作曲作品——但并不关注于音符或曲目结构，而是关于演奏者的呼吸，以及对于身体的使用。

德永将豪（Masahide Tokunaga）是一位即兴乐手，演奏中音萨克斯。他1982年出生于日本山口市，目前居住在东京。自2010年前后开始，德永将豪逐步建立起一种非常独特的声音，它源于一种具有原创性的呼吸方式与演奏结构，并同其他萨克斯手分道扬镳。这些成果可以在此后在东京的厂牌Ftarri发表的一系列独奏/合作专辑中得到窥见。

与此同时，他也是一个非常低调的音乐人。在网络上他的相关信息非常少。长一些的文章几乎没有。在专辑的发行准备期间，朱文博和他做了一次很长的邮件采访，里面回顾很多他的少年往事，以及他对于萨克斯这种管乐的独特看法。

提问：可以先来讲讲你自己的背景。其实我没有在网上找到太多关于你的介绍，只知道你是1982年出生于山口市，现在住在东京。你是什么时候搬到东京的？是因为想要做音乐，所以来到东京吗？因为我知道很多人都是这样的，会从自己的家乡搬去更大的城市，因为那里有更活跃的音乐场景。我自己就是这样的。

我2005年3月底从山口的大学毕业，然后搬去了东京。

那时候我对自己的未来计划还很不确定。大学毕业后我也曾假想过，去国外的音乐学校继续学习萨克斯演奏，但由于经济缘故还是放弃了。

在大学的时候，我有一年的时间在海外做交换学习，所以耽误了毕业找工作。我当时想，要不就在学校再待一年，明年再找工作吧。但很幸运的是，我收到了两家公司的录用机会，一个是在东京一个是在福冈。于是我选择了那个在东京的。尽管那是一个很普通的公司，和音乐没有关系，但是在东京的生活会对我的音乐带来帮助。

提问：你演奏中音萨克斯。你是从什么时候开始学习这件乐器的？为什么是它？

1997年的夏天，我在一个卖二手CD的唱片店里买了一只中音萨克斯风。那是一楽仪光(DoraVideo)开的店，我经常去。他们也卖二手乐器的。

我买的那只萨克斯标价39800日元，但是店员说：“你要是想要，三万日元就给你。”于是我就用自己的零用钱再管父母要了一些钱，买下了这支乐器。

在我买萨克斯的时候，店员又撺掇我借了一盘录像带，是JohnZorn和山冢爱的现场演出。他说这是“初学者的教学视频”。

那个时候我甚至都不知道萨克斯是需要哨片的。所以我去附近的乐器店买了一个哨片，然后又回到唱片店。然后我终于可以来演奏了。 所以为什么是中音萨克斯呢？就是巧合吧。刚好在那个时候有人把一只雅马哈学生型号的中音萨克斯卖到了唱片店，我又在别人之前买到了它。我的中音萨克斯之旅就从那一刻开始了。

我也玩过很多别的乐器，包括钢琴，鼓，吉他，电子设备，不过只有中音萨克斯是一直持续到现在的。我想是因为它很适合我吧。

我从童年开始练游泳，一直到高中。有一些时候的训练真的特别辛苦，有些时候就还好。最辛苦的时候，我每周有六天去做游泳训练，最后拿了山口市的冠军。现在回头看，用萨克斯发声和游泳之间其实有一些相似性的，尤其是怎样去呼吸。

提问：你有没有尝试过其它种类的萨克斯，或是单簧管，或是别的什么乐器？

我也演奏过一些别的簧片类乐器，但没有想过把它们当作是我的主要乐器。我在2020年六月买了一支新的中音萨克斯，这是我的第四支中音萨克斯。我也想过买一支高音或者次中音的，但最终我想还是继续在中音萨克斯上做到最好吧。

提问：你的萨克斯是自学的吗，还是有跟过一些老师？在此之前或在此期间，你有过其它的音乐学习与实践吗？比如加入一个摇滚乐队之类的。

在童年和小学，我在雅马哈音乐学校学过钢琴和鼓。初中的时候，我在一个摇滚乐队里打鼓。那是一个翻唱乐队，在学校的节日活动里演出，翻唱Blue Hearts还有其他一些日本朋克乐队。

我也参加过高中和大学的铜管乐队俱乐部，但很快也都退出了。因为我很难找到地方来练习，参加俱乐部就可以在学校里练习，这对我很有吸引力。但我实在是很难适应这些团体，因为他们演奏的音乐和我想做的差异太大了。

在初中和高中的时候，我跟一位半专业的萨克斯手学习了一些基础演奏。在高中和大学的时候，我跟一位专业乐手上过一些古典音乐课程，他的职业是给准备考音乐学校的学生带课。尽管这些课程也都很贵，但对我也很物有所值。在这些课程上我练习马赛尔·穆勒（Marcel Mule）的练习曲。

在开始工作以后，我跟随菊地成孔学习了三年的萨克斯演奏与爵士乐理论。

提问：谈到萨克斯手，尤其是日本的中音萨克斯即兴乐手，很多人马上能想到的名字是阿部薰，以及其他一些更当代的名字例如浦邊雅祥，望月治孝，川岛诚…… 很明显他们的音乐是一脉相承的。我不清楚是否可以将他们称之为一种“日本自由即兴萨克斯手”的代表性声音。或许并不是，只是来自我自己——一个非日本文化体系的很片面的观察。不过很明显的是，你的音乐和他们非常不同。我很想知道，你是怎样看待这种“经典的日本自由即兴萨克斯之声”？在你的萨克斯演奏过程中，你有受到过自由爵士（或者自由即兴、爵士乐等接近的音乐）的影响吗？

我买过很多阿部薰的CD。他和高柳昌行的二重奏真是太棒了。不过我不想模仿其他乐手的风格。如果只是模仿，我想就没必要在观众面前表演了。一个人的声音或许很丑陋很糟糕，但如果它不是这个人所自有的声音，那就是毫无意义的。另外我也不喜欢在演出中赤裸着自己的情绪。而阿部薰的生活方式亦是我不能够认同的。

有一位非日本的亚洲萨克斯手可以被特别提及，他就是韩国的姜泰焕。在我十几岁的时候我有幸去过几次他的现场演出。尽管我自己并不使用循环呼吸技巧，但我想我有一点点受到了他的影响。

很丰富的泛音，很绵长的呼吸，很集中的声音但也很松弛很好听，或许可以将其称之为是你的演奏风格。不知道你是否同意。你觉得有哪些人影响了你的音乐？我猜想他们不一定都是萨克斯手。

Sachiko M，杉本拓，中村としまる，秋山徹次，大友良英，灰野敬二等等。在我十几岁二十出头的时候，我特别幸运能去过他们的现场。他们的音乐给了我很大的影响。

我刚刚提到过一楽仪光在山口有一个二手唱片店，我在那里买了第一支萨克斯。我在他的店里听到了很多的即兴音乐。然后他也把这些音乐人带到山口来巡演，我也因此能看到那些演出。

有一次我看到一张海报，一楽先生要办一场演出。于是我就去了。那是 I.S.O. 的演出，我记得是1997年七月。这是我的第一次即兴音乐经历。后来我又去看了山本精一和内桥和久在山口的演出。还有灰野敬二的吉他表演，对于还在读初中的我来说，这真是太让人吃惊了。

我第一次见杉本拓是2003年，那时候我刚刚从美国交换学习回来。我和直嶋岳史（Takefumi Naoshima）在东京高円寺的“圆盘”演出，他和秋山徹次来看。2004年，我和杉本拓一起在小仓和山口演出。这是我们第一次一起演。当时我们表演了杉本拓的作曲。

提问：在你演奏萨克斯的时候，是否有哪个音符或声音是你非常喜欢的，你总是会自然的，不自觉的，反复去演奏这个音符/声音？比如有一些布鲁斯音乐家，他们的歌总是E调的。

是中音萨克斯的最低音，也就是让萨克斯所有的孔都闭合。在实际音高中它是降D。还有降B音，这个音是闭合管体上半部分的所有的孔，要使用左手除小指外的其他几根手指。

当演奏一个乐器的时候，我认为演奏最低音是让乐器产生共鸣的最有效的方式。说到共鸣的话，我也很喜欢低音G，还有低音D。我经常演奏这些音以及由此而来的泛音。

提问：我听说，你会练习瑜伽。这是真的吗？练习瑜伽和你的演奏方式，其中是否有什么联系？

那是在2014年，我对瑜伽产生了兴趣并上了第一个课程，之后又尝试了一些不同的瑜伽课程。最终我发现了艾扬格（Iyengar）瑜伽是最适合我的，是由B.K.S. Iyengar创立的一个派系，至今我仍然在去练。从我开始练习瑜伽之后，我的声音质量提升了很多。

提问：我最早是通过Ftarri发行的CD 《Alto Saxophone 2》 接触到你的音乐。我想那应该是2015年。后来我又听到了你之后发行的独奏CD，更早前在slub发行的CD，以及一些和别人一起的即兴现场。前几天也听了你在合辑《Improvised Music From Japan Extra 2003》里的作品，那好像是你最早的录音。在这其中我可以感受到一些变化，但同时我也不太确定，这种变化究竟是来自于演奏，还是对于录音的处理。例如在《Alto Saxophone 2》中你的声音很大，但我怀疑这其实是源自于中村としまる的母带处理。所以我想听你自己说一说，你觉得你的演奏方式，以及所关注的内容，在这20年的时间里，发生了怎样的改变？

在《Alto Saxophone 2》这张里，我有时真的吹得很大声！

你所发现的变化是来自于我的瑜伽练习。用钢琴来类比的话，在练习瑜伽之前我的声音就是一台便宜的立式钢琴，大约5万日元吧，而我的现在的声音就像是一台80万日元的大钢琴。当然了，还是有可提升的空间的。我也可以用预制钢琴的方式来弹一台破钢琴，但那不是我想走的方向。

总之，我认为从《Alto Saxophone 2》到《Bwoouunn》这种改变，是在于我有了更高水平的专注力，并有能力去保持下去。如人来处理录音和混音的过程，这一点是非常重要的。否则，其结果将会完全是另一回事。

提问：在我的印象里，你之前的音乐都是即兴的。自己的即兴，和别人一起的即兴。但是似乎你最近开始尝试一些作曲了。2019年你参与过一些演出，是演其他作曲家的曲目；2021年的CD《while yourmaster is sleeping》是演奏杉本拓的作曲，2022年发行的这个磁带是你自己的作曲。在当下，你对于这三者（即兴/演奏别人的作曲/写自己的作曲）的兴趣有怎样的不同？是否有哪一种会愿意花更多一些时间？

在作曲这方面，我作为表演者参与过杉本拓和宇波拓在loop-line组织的作曲系列活动。我也在Kid Ailack Hall演过一次杉本拓的作品。这两个场地现在都不在了。那段时期的经历都对我最近的作曲很有帮助。

对于这三种兴趣——即兴，演奏别人的作曲，写自己的作品——的确，如你所知它们是不同的。不过现在我认为，我不应忘记的是，我最看重的是最终我的萨克斯可以发出怎样的声音。

提问：说说《While Your Master is Sleeping》这张专辑，这张里的演奏者其实有两个人，浦裕幸在里面演奏了正弦波。两个人的演奏却是在 Ftarri 厂牌的独奏系列 Hitorri 里发行，这其中有什么缘故吗？

解释一下这个故事是怎么发展成这样的。起初是我问询杉本拓，请他来为我写一个独奏作品。最后他写了一个使用萨克斯和正弦波的作品。对于正弦波来说，与其说是一种演奏，不如说是基于所给出的音高和持续时间的忠实编程，并按照指示进行回放。我自己对于厂牌的细节也所知甚少，这些都是厂牌主理人决定的。

提问：也说说在燥眠夜发行的这个磁带。这个最新的这个作曲，其实最初是我请你写给我的。我想说，在我练习的过程里它对我的演奏带来了很多的影响。对于你自己来说，这个作曲的出发点是怎样的？它为什么会有“杠杆”这个意向？

最初的想法是来自于瑜伽的一种练习，名为“调吸法（pranayama）”。在这个课程里，老师会指导学生如何吸气，如何屏气，如何呼气。我将其简化，并应用到了这个作品的基础中。然后在给你之前，我和钢琴手遠藤ふみ(Fumi Endo)，大提琴手多井智紀（Tomoki Tai）先试了试，觉得它作为一个音乐作品的想法来说也不差，最终把它给了你。

在我们做一件事的时候，通常我们一开始会用十成的力量完成十成的任务。但是随着我们习惯它并且可以做到更好时，我们可以用八成，七成，甚至更少的力量来完成十成的任务。剩余的力气我们可以将其投入到一个新的领域的挑战中。我相信这种杠杆的想法可以应用到思维方式、发声以及许多其他方面之中。在这样的期望之下，我选择了“杠杆”这个词作为这个作品的标题。

提问：你觉得演奏作曲和之前的即兴，是有怎样的不同？

我的作曲方式是用文字来写谱。我想说的是，它就像是一种对于“礼仪”的明确陈述。这里的“礼仪”是呈现我理想的音乐。

提问：你每天会有多少时间来练习音乐（或许它不仅仅是练习萨克斯）？你的练习方式是怎样的？

我不是每天都练习。如果练习的话，当然也主要会是一些长音。我在练习瑜伽方面比练习乐器要花更多的时间，也更频繁。

提问：我常在Ftarri唱片店的演出日历中经常可以看到你的名字，有时你也是演出组织者。你通常一个月会有几场演出？你自己组织的演出和被邀请的演出，哪一种更多一些？是否有哪些人是你非常密切的合作者？

我每月会在Ftarri演出0-3次。这里让我对音乐很集中。在Ftarri的演出通常我自己就是主办方。Ftarri作为主办方的演出数量并不很多，不过在Ftarri主办的演出会有更好的门票回报。最近我经常和遠藤ふみ一起演出。

提问：你听说你做过很多的工作，出租汽车司机，修理水管等等。你现在是靠做什么工作来生活？你有想过以音乐作为主要的职业吗（不仅限于萨克斯的即兴演奏）？

在大学毕业后，我在一个IT公司工作了8年，然后在一个水管修理公司工作了5年，然后是开出租车，到现在已经4年了。在学生时代，我曾想让自己“靠音乐来生活”。不过，也正是因为我没有靠音乐来生活，就没有谁能干扰我的音乐了。所以我对现在的生活还是满意的。

提问：不知道你是否会为自己制定一些计划吗？还是说你不会为自己制定任何的计划，只是让一切自然的发生？如果你会做计划的话，未来一年里你是否有怎样的计划可以告诉我们？

想不起来上次出国演出是什么时候了，但是在2022年11月，我会出国演出。我会去瑞士。我想这是一个好的机会让自己振奋起来。我希望每年可以至少有一次出国演出。我现在还是给别人打工，但我希望在未来五六年的时间里我可以自主经营，当然这也要花一些时间。这样我可以在音乐中投入更多的时间。