After a short trip from Tokyo back to Beijing, Zhu Wenbo did an interview with Yuma Takashita in 2018. One year later, Yuma visit Beijing and they performed together.
Zhu: I think we could start from your gears. Could you tell us detailed that, what kinds of device do you use? Don’t be afraid to be a geek.
Yuma: Three types of synthesizers, two effectors, and a mixer are installed in the electric bass. These operations are performed by sensors, knobs, sliders and game controllers.
Zhu: So when did you start to add these devices to bass guitar? Was there any special thing make you do that? Which was the first device you add to bass guitar?
Yuma: It’s around 2013. At first it was only a synthesizer with a light sensor.
Zhu: How did you learn the knowledge about circuit, electronic, diy instruments…?
Yuma: I studied at internet and library each time to know what is necessary to make things that I came up with. And the most important thing is to actually make it anyway. I still do that.
Zhu: Before this “electro-bass”, what kind of gear did you use? And what kind of music did you make?
Yuma: Although I tried several effectors, basically it was a performance only on electric bass. And I was doing improvisation with sax, bass and drum trio.
Zhu: After communicating with some Japan musicians, I found that many of them have the traditional instrument training(such like violin lessons from very young age), or sound/art/composition education in university. Do you have similar background like that?
Yuma: I have not received music education in particular. I read some theoretical books etc, but mostly self-study.
Zhu: I’m also very curious for bass guitar. These devices are fixed on bass guitar, but have you think about the relationship between them and bass guitar? I think they could make their own sound, separately from bass guitar. And their sound is not focus one low frequency.
Yuma: That’s right. If I program the numerical value, you can also output the bass part, but now it is limited to the treble section. This is to separate roles.
Zhu: For me, the most important devices in your set are the wheel gears on headstock, because they could suddenly move and make sound of turning; and also the speakers which could turn around. Could you control wheel and speaker’s turning alone? Or are they linked or interactive with other devices?
Yuma: Operation of the rotation mechanism is performed with a distance sensor or knob. Although control itself is independent, it also reacts to the action of playing the base of the left hand or the right hand. In short, it can be said that the performer is connecting each device.
Zhu: I noticed that your bass guitar is fretless. Normally only bass guitar masters use this. Are you good at bass guitar playing? Could you play walking line in bebop?
Yuma: I can’t play like jazz bassists, but I think I can play it to a certain extent
Zhu: You have a duo project TUMO with Yuji. Seems in every performance of this duo, you do some improvisation with another musician from different background: noise, free jazz, onkyo, composition, young, old… Is there any other concept for TOMO?
Yuma: This duo can change to any shape. It changes greatly depending on the co-star. This is a very important thing when thinking about different people playing together.
Zhu: I think you are very active in Tokyo’s “post-onkyo” improvisation scene, and also have many relationship with other scenes(noise, free improvisation…). After 20 years rising and evolution, onkyo scene is still being ignored. At least in China, it is not as famous as noise/free improvisation’s big name. How about this scene in Japan now(from your view)? Is there any young musicians(such as in 20s age) coming out?
Yuma: There are many wonderful young musicians in Japan. They are also very enthusiastic listeners of experimental music, I think that is very wonderful. I am sure I know better about this scene than I am.
Zhu: I’m listening the CD you gave me: Salad Michael Tommy ok a silk mill group. Could you introduce this band to us? How did you found, do you have any common interests? And, what kinds of music background for the other 3 musicians?
Yuma: I met members of this band at a workshop on improvisation organized by Mr. Teruyuki Oshima which was held in Yokohama. The music we listen to, such as folk, rock, punk and so on, is completely different. Common concerns … I can not think of it. Each concern is different, I think that is good.
Zhu: It is hard to believe that an experimental musician in a indie pop group… In China, some experimental/noise/improvisation musicians involved with some rock bands, but for indie pop… it is hard to imagine for me. And it is more surprised that, you play your own way in this band. And you told me that you did not rehearsal… Is it real? Actually in this cd, I think music arranged very well, include your electro sound, been controlled very carefully, not just some random sound.
Yuma: Although there is a breadth of songs, most of the arrangements are on the spot. It is almost impossible to rehearse before the concert. Our performances are really different each time. I think that this band is doing a improvising performance in the true sense.
Zhu: In performance, will these songs be different too much with the cd? I could hear some bass guitar playing in this cd, in traditional way. So in performance, will you play more on electro sound or bass guitar?
Yuma: It is completely different from CD. It will change with the members’ performance on the performance, so I do not know what will happen each time.
Zhu: I’m also very curious the lyrics. What was the topics?
Yuma: Most of the lyrics are written by a vocalist Salad. He reads books very well, but I guess that I am making a unique world. But I try not to think about it deeply.
Zhu: What kinds of music do you listen at home? Normally how long time do you spend for listening music one day? Would you like to recommend some music you are listening in these days?
Yuma: Recently at home I mainly listen to old hit songs. Frankie Valli and so on. If it is Japanese music Mariya Takeuchi or something. The old popular song is very good.
竹下勇馬(Yuma Takeshita)1982年出生于大阪。2001年开始即兴音乐/实验音乐的演奏。2011年他搬去了东京。现在，他是东京新生代实验/即兴场景里非常活跃的一位。竹下勇馬是一位贝斯手，但全世界像他这样使用电贝斯的，恐怕没有第二个人了。
和勇馬是2017年10月去东京演出的时候认识的，演出/看演出的时候见了好几次。但他总是很沉默寡言，我是后来看他的instagram才知道他是这么的特别。
有人说，他的梦想是把自己改装成高达，胳膊里暗藏机关那种。
后来2018年6月再去日本的时候，他帮我们安排了关西的两场演出，在大阪的此花区一起待了好几天。等到10月的时候第三次去日本，没有和他演出但是一起逛了动物园。我们都是动物园爱好者。
看着他的这堆设备，或许你会想象他的音乐是那种大音量的噪音/合成器声响，凶猛的低频声浪搅动的翻天覆地那种……但事实上完全不是。当然勇馬和很多噪音乐手同台演出过，但大多数的时候，他的声音并不是很“满”的，而是散落着的，隐藏着的。或者说，对于乐器的形象，他的声音是抽离开的。
更何况，他常常会在演出中使用自己做的一对小音箱。用贝斯音箱的情况当然也有，但相比起把声音输入到场地的PA系统中外扩出来，他更偏向于自己的原声系统。
在动物园的那天，勇馬告诉我他所参与一个”indie-pop”乐队，Salad Michael Tommy ok a silk mill group。他在这个乐队里弹他所开发的奇怪的电贝斯，而且他们从来不排练。我好奇极了。几天后他送了我一张乐队的CD。后来我决定和他做个采访。（朱文博）
朱：我们就从你的设备开始聊起吧。你可以仔细讲讲贝斯上装的都是些什么东西吗？别怕麻烦。
竹：贝斯上装了三种合成器，两种效果器，还有一个混音器。在演出的时候它们通过感应器、旋钮、滑动条还有游戏手柄来控制。
朱：你是从什么时候开始在贝斯上安装这些设备的？最早安装的设备是什么？
竹：是2013年。最早只是安装了一个光敏合成器。
朱：你是怎样学到这些知识的？电工、电路、自制乐器什么的……
竹：在网上，还有图书馆。每次我要做一个东西需要有必要了解一些知识的时候，我就查一查。而最重要的是真去做它。我一直是这样来的。
朱：在成为“电子贝斯手”之前，你使用什么设备？你做什么样的音乐？
竹：我也用很多的效果器，不过基本来说我还是弹贝斯。那时候我有一个萨克斯、贝斯、鼓的即兴三重奏。
朱：我和很多日本乐手聊过，我发现他们很多人都有过很传统的乐器训练（比如从很小的时候就开始学提琴什么的），或者在大学学的是声音、艺术、作曲之类的专业。你有类似的背景吗？
竹：我没有特意接受过音乐教育。我读过一些理论书籍，但大都是自学。
朱：我同样好奇的是贝斯。这些设备是安装在贝斯上，但是你觉得它们和贝斯到底有怎样的关系？我觉得它们是独立发声的，但它们的声音并不是低频。
竹：是的。如果我对参数进行设置，我也可以输出低音部分，但现在它只局限于高音部分。这是为了让角色分开。
朱：对我来说，你的设备里很重要的几个组成是，安装在琴头上的一些齿轮，有时它们会突然转动几下，能听到转动的声音；还有两个可以旋转的音箱。你可以单独控制齿轮与音箱的转动吗？还是它们是和别的电子设备捆绑在一起的，或是有一些交互？
竹：这些旋转机械是由距离感应器/旋钮连在一起的。尽管它们的控制是独立的，它们也可以和左手或是右手的贝斯演奏有所关联。简而言之就是，演奏者和这些设备连在了一起。
朱：我注意到，你弹的是一把无品贝斯，通常都是贝斯大师才弹这种乐器。你是很厉害的贝斯手吗？你能不能弹爵士乐的walking line？
竹：我可以在一定程度上演奏一些这样的东西，但我没法像一个爵士贝斯手那样。
朱：我知道你和石原雄治(Yuji Ishihara)有一个二人组TUMO, 似乎这个计划的核心就是，每次再加上一位乐手一起即兴？除此之外这个组合是否还会有别的概念？我注意到，你们合作的乐手真是来自各种各样的背景啊，纯噪音，自由爵士，声响派，作曲，年轻的，老的……
竹：这个二重奏可以做各种变型。基于不同的同台嘉宾，它可以变化很大。在不同的乐手一起演奏的时候这很重要。
朱：我觉得你在东京的“后声响派”即兴场景里很活跃，同时也和其它场景（比如噪音、自由即兴等等）有着很多的联系。经过了20年的发展与进化，“声响派”如今依然是被忽视的——至少在中国，这种音乐没有噪音/自由即兴大牌那么有名。在你看来日本的这一场景现在怎样？有那种20岁左右的年轻乐手出现吗？
竹：在日本有很多很棒的年轻乐手。他们也是特别狂热的实验音乐听众，我觉得这很好。我可以肯定的是，这个场景里的一些人比我做的更好。
朱：我在听你送我的CD，Salad Michael Tommy ok a silk mill group。你可以为我们介绍一下这个乐队吗？你们是基于怎样的兴趣组建起来的？以及，乐队里的另外三人，他们都是怎样的音乐背景？
竹：我们是在大岛辉之（Teruyuki Oshima）在横滨组织的一次即兴工作坊上认识的。我们听的音乐完全不一样，民谣，摇滚，朋克什么的…… 共同的联系么……我也想不出什么来。每一个联系都是不同的，我觉得这样不错。
朱：很难以置信的一件事是，一位实验乐手会参与一个indie pop组合。在中国，很多实验/即兴/噪音乐手和摇滚乐队走的很近，但indie pop……反正我是没法想象。此外更难以置信的是，你其实是以你自己的方式加入这个组合，而且你说你们从来不排练？真的从来没有排练过？其实我听CD觉得真的都是很认真的编排过，包括你的好像很随意的电子的声音。
竹：虽然歌曲范围很广，但大部分的编排都是当场来的。在演出前基本上没法排练。我们的演出每次都特别不同。我觉得这个乐队每一次都是在做真正意义上的即兴演出。
朱：如果演出的话，这些歌曲和CD的差异大吗？因为仔细听的话，我还是能听到贝斯的声音的，不知道在现场里你会更多演奏电子还是贝斯。
竹：现场和CD是完全不同的。在演出中会随着演奏者的表现而变的不同，所以我也不知道每一次会发生什么。
朱：另一个很好奇的是歌词，主唱他都在唱些什么？
竹：歌词都是主唱Salad写的。他读很好的书，但是我更主要是沉浸在自己的世界里，不去仔细想这些。
朱：平时在家里，你都会听什么样的音乐？通常你一天会花多长时间听音乐？你可以推荐一些你最近在听的音乐吗？
竹：最近我在家主要听一些经典老歌，Frankie Valli什么的。如果是日本音乐的话，就是竹内玛利亚之类的。老的流行歌真是好。