2016年11月，借Kiyasu Orchestra的磁带《Cosmo》在燥眠夜发行的契机，朱文博和乐团组建者 Ryosuke Kiyasu 喜安亮介进行了一次采访。
你是怎么开始这个自由爵士计划的？它始于2004年，应该是在同一时间你也开始了你的碾核乐队、军鼓独奏计划对吧？
2003-2004年我在加拿大，组了一个挺猛的乐队The Endless Blockade，发了一些唱片做了一些演出；然后我2004年回日本，开始组碾核噪音乐队Sete Star Sept和自由爵士组合 Kiyasu Orchestra，是同一时间。
我对快速紧凑，有很强烈即兴元素的自由爵士乐队非常有兴趣，所以就开始找乐手。凑齐了四个人，萨克斯、钢琴、贝斯和鼓，然后就开始了。
我第一次演军鼓独奏是2003年夏天在纽约，那是在一个酒吧的Open Mic。
在这12年里你们都在做些什么？因为实在难以置信，你们用了12年来完成一张专辑，而与此同时你的碾核乐队已经出了100多张了。
这12年里我花了很多时间在Sete Star Sept的巡演和录音上，我想真的有100多张吧。
Kiyasu Orchestra在东京的现场演出中很活跃，只是成员总是很难安排时间来一起做一张专辑。现在的这个阵容是六年前确定的，那时候我开始经常排练来完成一首歌。
直到最近乐队的声音才确定了下来，所以我想录张专辑应该会很有意思。
聊聊《Asian Flashback》这张合辑吧？你们也在其中贡献了一首，不过说实话我觉得它并不像《Cosmo》。
的确，我觉得《Asian Flashback》里的这首和《Cosmo》这张专辑完全不一样，两个时期的成员也完全不一样，所以很自然声音也就不一样了。我想《Asian Flashback》的时候感觉要更迷幻一些。
不过《Cosmo》里的歌是我在2004年组Kiyasu Orchestra的时候真正想要的声音。
不过《Cosmo》里的歌是我在2004年组Kiyasu Orchestra的时候真正想要的声音。
你是怎么找到其他成员的？Kiyasu Orchestra是一个固定的四重奏吗，还是总会有人员变动或是客座乐手？
《Asian Flashback》里的成员是通过我的朋友找的，在那之后我把除我之外的所有成员都换了。因为我觉得Kiyasu Orchestra的声音开始往别的方向去了，所以我更换了成员，重新开始。
之后，我的老朋友，录音棚Koenji DOM studio的小号手ANIKI Tomonori开始为新的Kiyasu Orchestra寻找其他成员。基本上都是固定成员。
或许你可以介绍一下参与《Cosmo》这张专辑的其他三位乐手？他们是摇滚乐手还是爵士乐手？他们是P.S.F.的粉丝吗，或者是搞硬核朋克的？我知道你的背景包括极端金属、噪音、重型迷幻、自由即兴，而在成为全职音乐人之前你是一位电脑工程师，还写过一本编程的书。
小号手ANIKI Tomonori以前是 Koenji DOM studio 的排练室经理，还开了一家现场酒吧 Koenji Ten（现在叫 Asagaya Ten），现在他都不干这些工作了。基本上他是一个爵士乐手，不过也在摇滚乐队里吹小号。
tsubatics是贝斯手，他也参与一些即兴乐队和前卫摇滚乐队。
Kouichi Kidoura是吉他手，他在那种很摇滚但也有即兴元素的乐队里弹吉他，也会演吉他独奏。
也介绍一下Asagaya Ten？我看你好像总在那里演，一个月能演两三次。
Asagaya Ten 是一个比较新的酒吧，小号手Aniki Tmonori 开的，现在的所有者是Ueda。差不多是一个爵士吧，演标准曲，爵士即兴的那种，但我也会帮一些有很浓即兴元素的噪音乐手在这里定演出，比如自由爵士。现在，我想有很多偏即兴的乐队会在Asagaya Ten 演。
你们是怎么“作曲”的？我觉得你们的作品也不是纯即兴的，对吧？
差不多每首歌都有那么一两句是确定的，此外就是在一些规则下的即兴演奏。乐队整体的声音非常重要，所以，和相同的成员对一首歌进行很多次即兴是非常重要的。
你们一场演出演多久？我在网上看过一些视频，《Inner Circles》是你们最常演的一首吗？
演出通常是40分钟，演4-5首。的确，我们总是会演《Inner Circle》、《The
Beginning》、《Murder in the Dance》这几首。
你在介绍里说你们受到了60年代自由爵士的影响，是哪一种？John Coltrane还是Ornette Coleman？Eric Dolphy还是Albert Ayler？还是 AACM，Cecil Taylor，ESP，FMP，高柳昌行，高木元辉……？还是在你看来，他们其实是一回事？
起初我会翻玩一些John Coltrane、Miles Davis的作品，并听了很多。我觉得Kiyasu Orchestra的声音受到了山下洋辅三重奏以及FMP众多音乐人的影响。
东京的自由爵士场景是怎样的？因为我查Tokyo Gig Guide网站发现，标free jazz的演出里面，10场有7场是Kiyasu Orchestra或是你的独奏。
我不太在意东京的自由爵士场景，我觉得这里基本没有什么场景。因为每个人都是各自活动，所以不会成为一个大的场景。不过一点一点的，我觉得在东京对自由爵士感兴趣的人也在增长。
我今年也看到你传了很多街头表演的视频，你自己的，你在美国和当地乐手的，最近几个月我发现Kiyasu Orchestra也开始在街上演出了。在这种公共场所表演的感觉怎么样？
我还想演更多。通过在公共场所表演，你可以听到那些并不了解我的音乐的人。很多人不喜欢我们的音乐，但或许也有人喜欢。因此我希望有更多的人对我的音乐感兴趣。每次我都是演10分钟就被警察制止了。
你收唱片吗（黑胶、CD或磁带）？你多久去一次东京的唱片店？你都会买什么样的东西？可以为中国的乐迷推荐一些店吗？
我不收唱片，最近也不去唱片店了。现在我只是对做自己的音乐和专辑感兴趣。不过十几岁到二十出头的时候我买过很多唱片。我推荐的唱片店是diskunion，他们有很多分店，分类详细，价格便宜，挺疯的。
讲讲你的未来计划？包括Kiyasu Orchestra，Fushitsusha，Sete Star Sept，你的独奏，发行，巡演，或别的事，都行。
Kiyasu Orchestra明年会发行一张新专辑，我们现在正在排练新歌，我希望能在日本多演一些。
不失者明年会有美国巡演，如果有机会我们也希望能来中国巡演。
Sete Star Sept会做新的专辑，明年会发好多唱片/磁带，计划去印度巡演，可能还有西欧和俄罗斯，希望明年能在日本做更多演出。
我的个人计划会在日本做更多的户外演出，发新专辑。我计划去欧洲巡演。
Interview by Zhu Wenbo, by the releasing of COSMO on Zoomin’ Night
Q: How did you start this free jazz project? It started from 2004, same time with your grindcore project and your snare drum solo, right?
A: I was staying in Canada 2003-2004 to start power violence band called “The Endless Blockade” and released couple of records and played someshows. After i was back to japan in 2004 and then start grind/noise project call “Sete Star Sept” and free jazz project “Kiyasu Orchestra” in same time.
I was very interested in a fast, intense, free jazz band with a strong improvisational element and started collecting members soon, and saw four people, saxophone, piano, bass and drum, and started activities.
My snare drum solo started when i was staying in New York City In the summer of 2003.first snare drum show is an open mic show in a New York bar somewhere.
Q: What did you do in these 12 years? It is very hard to thought that, you guys just finished only one albums in 12 years, but your grindcore band have more than 100 releases!
A: I spent a lot of time “Sete Star Sept” tour and recording for 12 years. So I think it was possible to create more than 100 works.
Kiyasu Orchestra was active mainly in live performances in Tokyo, but at that time members could not adjust the time to create an album well. Since it settled into the lineup now about 6 years ago, I started to practice regularly for making a song.
Recently the sound as a band has been established, so I think that it became interesting to make an album.
Q: Would you like to talk about Asian Flashback? There is one track in this compilation, and I have to say it dose not sound like Cosmo.
A: Exactly. I think that the tracks in the Asian flashback and the tracks in the album “Cosmo” are completely different.
Members at the time of Asian flashback and members who made “Cosmo” are all different.
So it was natural that the sound was different, I think that it was more psychedelic feeling at that time.
But the songs that is in the album “Cosmo” was the pure band sound of Kiyasu Orchestra that I had imagined at the time of formation in 2004.
Q: How did you find the other members? For the line up, is Kiyasu Orchestra a formed quartet, or always have changing members or guest members?
A: Members of Asian flashback were found from friends around me. After the Asian flashback, I changed all members except me. I felt Kiyasu Orchestra ‘s sound was going in a different direction, so I switched everyone to reset it once.
After that, ANIKI Tomonori of the trumpet, who was a friend of the Koenji DOM studio who was a friend from a long time ago, began searching for members of the new Kiyasu Orchestra. Members are basically fixed members.
Q: Maybe you could introduce other 3 musicians in Cosmo? Are they rock musicians or jazz musicians? Are they P.S.F. fans or hardcore punk kids? I know your background is extreme metal, noise, heavy psychedelic, free improvisation, before full-time musician you were a computer engineer and wrote a program book.
A: Trumpet player “Aniki Tomonori” was the manager of the Koenji DOM studio in the practice studio and was the owner of the live bar Koenji Ten (now Asagaya Ten). Now he quit those jobs. Basically he is a jazz musician and he also plays trumpets in rock bands.
“tsubatics” is a bassist, and others are playing in progressive rock bands and improvising bands.
“Kouichi Kidoura” is a guitar player, he plays guitar even in strong rock bands with improvising elements, and also performs live at guitar solo.
Q: Maybe you could also introduce about Asagaya TEN? Seems you always play there, 2-3 times a month.
A: Asagaya Ten is a relatively new bar launched by trumpet player Aniki Tmonori and current owner Ueda. Basically it is a jazz bar, so I have decided on the standard jazz live day and the date of a jazz session, but I often support booking for bands / artists and noise artists with strong improvising elements such as free jazz.
Recently, I think that bands with a lot of experiences and improvising elements are going to be live in Asagaya TEN.
Q: How did you “compose” these works? I don’t think they are pure improve works, right?
A: Basically each song has one or two phrases that you decide, otherwise it is improvised performance that some rules decided. The sound of the whole band is the most important. So, it is important to improvise the song many times with the same members.
Q: How long time do you play normally in a gig? I saw some videos, and seems Inner Circles is your most often standard.
A: It’s about 40 minutes, playing 4-5 songs.yeah, “Inner Circle”, “The Beginning” and “Murder in the Dance” are always played in our show.
Q: You said this orchestra got the influences from 60s free jazz, what kind of? Coltrane or Colman? Dolphy or Ayler? AACM or Cecil Taylor? ESP or FMP? New Direction or Mototeru Takagi? … or maybe you think they are a same thing?
A: At first,I covered some songs by John Coltrane and Miles Davis and heard a lot. I think that the sound of the Kiyasu Orchestra is greatly influenced by Yosuke Yamashita trio, FMP related musicians.
Q: How about Tokyo free jazz scene now? Cause I checked Tokyo Gig Guide website, for tag “free jazz”, I saw 10 performance but 7 is Kiyasu Orchestra or your solo set.
A: I do not care much about Tokyo’s free Jazz scene. I think there is almost no scene.
Because everyone is doing independent activities, so it will not be grown a big scene.
Little by little, I feel that people who are interested in free jazz are increasing in Tokyo.
Q: And I saw your many street performance videos this year, yourself, you with lots of US musicians, and these months I saw Kiyasu Orchestra play on street, too. How about the feeling of play in public space?
A: I feel like I want to play even more. By playing in a public place, you can listen to those who do not know my music. There are a lot of people disliking our music, and maybe there are people who like it. Just I would like more people to be interested in our music. I get caught by the police about 10 minutes after I start playing every time.
Q: Do you collect records(LP CD or tape)? How often do you go to record shop in Tokyo? What kind of things will you buy? Could you recommend some shops for Chinese fans?
A: I have not collected records, and have not gotten to a record shop recently. Now I am only interested in making my own new songs and albums. But from the late teens to the early twenties I bought a lot of records. i recommend Record store “diskunion”. There are many branches, and they sell maniac things specialized in genres at low prices.
Q: Could you tell us about some your future plans? I mean, Kiyasu Orchestra, Fushitsusha, Sete Star Sept, your solo set, release or tour or ant other interesting things, anything will be fine.
A: Kiyasu Orchestra will release a new album next year. I am currently practicing new songs in the studio. I would like to do more live mainly in Japan.
Fushitsusha has plans for U.S. tour next year. if we have opportunity, would like to tour in China as well.
Sete Star Sept will make new album and plan to release a lot of records/tapes next year.
Planning to tour in India (and maybe Western Europe/Russia as well) and to play many more shows in japan for next year.
My solo set will do more shows in outside of japan and release new album. I will plan to tour in Europe.