AN INTERVIEW BETWEEN ZHU WENBO AND TAKU SUGIMOTO ABOUT “SNARE DRUM +“
Zhu: Would you like to introduce the musicians a little bit who played snare drum +?
Taku: The performer who played the snare drum part is Takeshi Ikeda. He plays drums in two hardcore punk bands: Ningengoukaku and Core of Bells. Ikeda is also a visual artist, being active internationally.
coreofbells.bandcamp.com ningengoukaku.bandcamp.com
Katsuaki Iida is a poet, vocalist of Shimokitazawa Functions, and performer (time to time), running a bar called Dainikyukeijyo (secondary resting place(?)). I have known him for nearly 20 years. we have worked on several occasions while drinking together many times.
Hironori Tadaishi is an artist making several kinds of experimental video and noise music, being into uncategorized genres of art. He didn’t play found objects in this session, but shot and edited the performance to make a short video.
Yuka Yasukawa is a film director and has directed several works. In the end of last year, she came to the screening of a video work called “too old to camp” co-directed by Hironori Tadaishi and myself.
She said she enjoyed the video a lot. Later I was to ask her to join this project because I was thinking (as always) to involve interesting artists from other genres in my music.
Ikuhiro Yamagata is a member-vocalist-of Core of Bells as well as Ikeda. He is a versatile artist who draws comics, writes scenarios, and working as a performer. Once I and Yamagata worked as an ad hoc songwriting team (music, Sugimoto; words, Yamagata), producing a series of pop songs.
Zhu: This piece “snare drum” was composed in 2011, but the solo version was recorded in 2021. Why dose it been delayed so long time?
Taku: First, I would like to tell you that lots of my compositions remain unreleased or unrecorded (or even not played) due to various reasons.
Ikeda premiered “snare drum” in 2011 (he played the piece in 2018 too), and the concert was recorded. I like the recording, however it was a bit risky for me to release it as CD, for I didn’t think it would be sold well. At that time, it was yet to be popular to sell digital data on the web.
Zhu: How do you get the idea to expand the piece to a “plus” version?
Taku: It was actually during the recording of “snare drum” outdoors when I conceived the idea of the + version. I had been searching for the ideas of a percussion piece which should include non-musicians. I found that the solution I had been searching for was quite simple: “follow the sound of the snare drum as immediately as possible by hitting the found objects. While the performers should not lose their concentrations, any sounding result will be acceptable”.
Zhu: It was recorded in a public place, close to a viaduct. I found that in recent years, you always record or play in some public place, such as park. Is it your new interest?
Taku: It has been, still is, and perhaps will be very difficult for me to find a quiet and resonant place without paying money. So I though I had to change my direction toward the opposite: noisy and not resonating places. To explore any sort of outdoor situations is quite interesting. However, I still love quiet and resonating places. The recording site of “snare drum +”, the location of which Tadaishi found for an outdoor concert he organized, has traits of resonance especially for percussive sounds.
Zhu: For playing in a public place, do you feel any difference between the pre-Covid-19 days and after 2020?
Taku: Several kinds of performing arts have been losing chances of their renditions more and more. As for me, I have had only two indoor concerts since then. To be honesty, I have become reluctant to play music at any indoor performance place as long as this situation lasts. So I have had no choice but to head toward possibilities of outdoor music. While any outdoor public place I know may remain itself the same, my consciousness to to play music outdoors is changing. In fact, this year I have engaged in two public outdoor concerts beside several outdoor recordings.
Zhu: I also have interests to Tokyo Vagabond Collective. Would you also like to introduce this project a little bit? Seems it is a “public place” project, and has been active since 2020. I feel that it is very different from your former projects, do you agree with that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9oqDpDgDSU
Taku: TVC initially begun as a demonstration, though we were not very conscious that against what, the demonstration was. The activity of TVC is not at all like those of formal performing arts such as music, theatre, or performance; it is similar to child play in which you can find something interesting. TVC is not a project in any sense. What we do should not be digested within ‘art’. We gather time to time and do something. My opinions about TVC are like this. Each member has his / her opinions, I am sure. We are nothing but vagabonds.
杉本拓 Taku Sugimoto 是最近20年里最重要的日本实验音乐人之一。他是一位吉他手，作曲家，是1990年代末东京“声响派”的发起者之一，也是最早从这一场景抽身出来的人。从“声响派”的小音量，多空白，高度精神集中的即兴音乐，到 Wandelweiser Group 的超极简作曲，杉本拓总是和同行们保持着亲密又疏离的距离。最近几年，杉本拓开始对单音符、没有节奏与小节线的旋律与歌曲有更多的探索。
《Snare Drum +》是杉本拓对于此前 2011 年的军鼓独奏作品《Snare Drum》的拓展版本（杉本拓的作品命名总是非常简单，类似“G大调”“III”“a”“七重奏”这样的名字），由三个以上不限人数的表演者演奏。燥眠夜发行的磁带里收录了这个作品四个版本的演奏。磁带正式发行前，朱文博和杉本拓做了一个简短的采访。聊了聊这张新专辑，他对于户外演奏的兴趣，以及在2020年新冠疫情开始以后，杉本拓参与的一个新“项目”。
朱：要不你先来介绍一下在《Snare Drum +》这张专辑里演奏的乐手吧。
拓：在这个录音里演奏军鼓的人是池田武史 Takeshi Ikeda。他也是两个硬核朋克乐队的鼓手：Ningengoukaku 和 Core of Bells。池田也是一位视觉艺术家，他在国际上很活跃。（注：杉本拓全程参与了 Core of Bells 乐队的第二张专辑《gesupiria 2 -Lost Banchos-》。而乐队的第一张专辑《ボトルキープ 2010》则有 Phew、中尾勘二、石川高等实验/即兴音乐人的参与。）
飯田克明 Katsuaki Iida 是一位诗人，他是Shimokitazawa Functions乐队的主唱（注：杉本拓的一个迷幻/朋克摇滚乐队，可能一年排练三次演出一次的那种），他有一个酒吧名叫“下北沢第二休憩所”。我们认识快20年了。我们有很多的合作，也总一起喝酒。
只石博紀 Hironori Tadaishi 没有参与演奏，但是他为录音过程拍摄剪辑了影片。他是一位实验影像/噪音音乐艺术家，参与一些无法分类的艺术。
安川有果 Yuka Yasukawa 是一个导演，有很多作品。去年年底她来看了我和只石博紀共同导演的视频《老了没法去露营（too old to camp）》放映活动，她说她很喜欢，之后我就邀请她加入了这个项目。我总是喜欢邀请其它领域有趣的艺术家参与到我的音乐中。
山形育弘 Ikuhiro Yamagata 是Core of Bells乐队的主唱。他画漫画，写剧本，做表演，多才多艺。我们曾为一个特定项目组建过一个小团队，我写音乐，他写歌词，做过一些流行歌曲。
朱：《Snare Drum》这首曲目是你2011年的作品，但直到十年后你才录制了这首的独奏版本并发布在你自己的bandcamp页面上。为什么会拖延了这么久？
拓：首先我想要告诉你的是，由于各种原因，我有很多作曲都还没有发表，或者没有录音、没有表演过呢。
池田在2011年的时候第一次表演了《Snare Drum》，那场演出有录音。后来他在2018年又演过。我很喜欢那个录音，但是我当时觉得发行CD是很有风险的事情。我想它不会好卖。那时候还不太流行在网上卖数字版录音。
朱：你是怎样想到要把这首作品弄成一个扩展版本的？
拓：其实是在这首的独奏户外录音的时候我想到了这个事情。我一直想要做一个打击乐作品，其中也包含有不做音乐的人的参与。后来我发现我一直想寻找的解决方案其实很简单：“跟随军鼓的声音，立刻演奏手中的物件。表演者要时刻集中注意力。任何声音结果都是可以接受的。”
朱：这个磁带是在户外的公共空间录制的，靠近一座大桥。我发现在最近几年，你总是在公共空间演奏或者是录音，比如公园。这是你的一种新的兴趣所在吗？
拓：一直以来，找寻一个安静的，有声音谐振同时又不需要付钱的房间对我来说都是非常困难的事情。现在也是，未来也是。所以我转向了这件事的反面，嘈杂的，没有谐振的地方。对户外的各种情况进行探索也很有意思。当然了，我还是很喜欢安静又有声音共振的地方。录制《Snare Drum +》的地方是只石博紀找到的，他在那里组织户外演出。那里的声音谐振很有特点，尤其是对打击乐。
朱：对于户外演奏这件事来说，现在和疫情前相比，你会感觉有什么不一样吗？
拓：越来越多的表演艺术都失去了表演机会。对于我来说，疫情开始之后我只演过两次室内音乐会。老实说，只要这种情况持续下去，我就不愿意在任何室内表演场所演出。所以我别无选择，只能走向户外音乐的可能性。虽然我知道的户外公共空间都没有变化，但我对于户外演奏音乐的意识正在发生改变。事实上，今年除了几次户外录音，我还参加了两次公开的户外音乐会。
朱：我也对“东京流浪集团（Tokyo Vagabond Collective）”很有兴趣。你可以介绍一下你参与的这个项目吗？似乎它也是一个公共空间项目呢，从2020年开始有活动。我觉得它和你之前的各种计划很不一样，不知道你是否同意？
拓：TVC 最初是一种示威，虽然我们也不太清楚这种示威究竟是要反对什么。TVC 与正规的表演艺术比如音乐、戏剧、表演这些完全不同，它更接近于儿童游戏，你可以在其中找到一些乐趣。TVC 在任何意义上都不是一个项目，我们所做的不应该被“艺术”所消化，我们只是有时会聚在一起做一些事情。这是我对TVC的看法，当然我相信每个成员都有他/她自己的意见。除了流浪汉，我们什么也不是。